It’s been one year since my husband has read Nora Gedgaudas book Primal Body, Primal Mind: Beyond The Paleo Diet For Total Health and a Longer Life and has started the Paleo diet. Since then he has lost 40 pounds, turned his blood work around to unbelievably healthy numbers and has had a significant more amount of energy and endurance. His constant quoting of Nora and spreading her word near and far to all the people that ask why he looks so good, has slowly started to hook me in and made me put aside my pasta bowl. On October 1st, I decided to “go Paleo” for 21 days. I’ve been reading Nora’s book and find her information fascinating, smart and compelling. Read on for my interview with Nora and to hear how I feel after 21 days.
Can you explain the difference between Paleo and Primal?
Basically, the differences between the terms “Primal” and “Paleo” are more or less interchangeable, to be honest with you. I personally selected the term “Primal” partly because I liked the way it sounded, and also because I felt the term somehow implied an earlier path along our evolutionary history, as opposed to the more “Neolithically oriented” Paleo approaches embraced by people like Lauren Cordain, Robb Wolf and Mark Sisson. I am very foundational in my thinking and even dig back further historically and write about elements of significant primordial influence within our DNA. “Primal” just seemed to fit that more “foundational” objective better.
Also, the subtitle of my book is “Beyond the Paleo diet for total health and a longer life” because the fact is that we don’t live in anything like the same world our Paleolithic ancestors lived in anymore. The way I see it, we have far greater challenges than they ever did. Therefore, I adapt what I put forward as basic “Paleolithic principles” as best I can to the world that we live in now; making allowances for far more toxic environment, as well as other compromises to our modern-day health and food supply that we need desperately to somehow compensate for. Also, to me, the fact that our ancestors did something/anything in particular is not by itself necessarily a good enough reason for me to want to also do the exact same thing today. That said, I do see underlying Paleolithic principles as an essential starting place when it comes to determining what might be optimal for us today. Clearly, these very principles helped establish our very physiological makeup and nutritional requirements. I also take modern day human longevity research into account, which I find dovetails beautifully with these Paleolithic principles in a way our ancestors never would have known about or thought to apply. –It’s one of our few modern day advantages (and honestly, we need all the help we can get). Yes– we are extraordinarily and uniquely well suited to the consumption of nutrient dense, animal source foods. That said, rather than gorging on meat at every opportunity. It turns out it is much better to simply meet our complete source protein requirements (while eliminating most sugar and starch), but not to exceed them. It turns out the effect of moderating protein can be significantly longevity and health enhancing. Eliminating animal protein, however, is a big mistake. We do require complete protein and many of the nutrients found exclusively in animal source foods. It’s all about the right amounts and combinations… And it turns out that eating a variety of natural dietary fats (including animal fats) is enormously beneficial in a variety of ways, not the least of which is allowing us to accomplish a “low carbohydrate and moderate protein” intake without ever having to be hungry or feel deprived, in any way. A person can then eat as many fibrous (i.e., non-starchy “above ground” vegetables and greens) as they like for their bulk (allowing for the sense of having more food on the plate), plus the antioxidant, fighting nutrient and detoxifying properties they contain, which are likely much more important to us today and they ever used to be in our distant evolutionary past.
In your book you mention saving money on grocery bills because you are eating less. How much do you think Americans are over eating?
Americans are massively over-eating. Part of the problem is the fact that we still possess the same natural mindset of our wild ancestors, in so far as once upon a time, everything was either “feast or famine” in an uncertain world. –-This is an underlying survival-oriented tendency we still carry with us unconsciously today. Unfortunately, today we live in a world where there is literally an unnatural access to an unnatural abundance of food (and quasi-food like substances) that we readily maintain within easy reach during all hours of the day. The nature of our food supply, and many of the ways in which it has been chemically manipulated by industry together with the power of advertising and convenience makes it far too easy to overeat at every turn. Understand, too, that this is partly by corporate design, as well. Modern day Americans (and those of us in the Western world, in general) have been encouraged by every industry and mainstream institution to eat a carbohydrate-based (i.e., sugar and starch-based) diet. The US Department of AGRICULTURE’S food pyramid (no bias there, right?) has determined through the science of politics and economics — having nothing whatever to do with the science of health– that every man, woman and child should be eating a grain-and legume-based diet– which is (by the way) cheap to produce, and massively profitable. It is also been incredibly costly for human health. Furthermore, a carbohydrate- (sugar and starch) -based diet is the equivalent of utilizing almost nothing but kindling to heat your home (vs. the idea of burning nice big “fat” logs on our metabolic fires). The result is a culture that is more or less always hungry, constantly preoccupied with where the next handful of “kindling” is coming from and also conditioned to think of food is a nutrient-devoid source of entertainment. We are literally enslaved by our “metabolic woodstoves” and the economic interests of the industries selling us all the “kindling”. It is incredibly wasteful financially and detrimental physiologically to eat this way. Yet nearly everybody does– and we are doing this (I might add) for the very first time in our very long evolutionary history. The relatively poor nutrient content in the American diet may also be partly responsible for the tendency to over-eat, as we starve ourselves into obesity and illness struggling for an ever-elusive nutrient sufficiency.
When one is able to more naturally cultivate a metabolism based on the utilization of fat (ketones and free fatty acids) instead of sugar (glucose) as a primary source of fuel, the satiating effects of a genuinely nutrient dense diet tends to eliminate cravings, constant snacking, and over eating, in general. In the way of eating, promoted by my book one is no longer consuming processed foods, most snack foods, juices, sodas, sports drinks, and other commonly purchased sources of empty calories… All of which comes with a bigger price tag than anyone suspects. In the wonderful e-book (based on my own book from a money-saving perspective) called “Primal Tightwad” the author actually compares the costs of a weeks-worth of menus from the standard American diet with a weeks-worth of menus from the diet I generally promote. Not only is it less expensive to eat optimally well, it can be a savings up to $1,500 per person per year. It shatters the myth that only wealthy people can afford to eat healthy food. Nothing could be further from the truth. That kind of savings is anything but trivial to the average American in this economy… and is not even taking into account the inevitable costs associated with the standard American diet in terms of healthcare costs and lost wages due to all manner of illness. The number one source of bankruptcy in America today is a bad diagnosis. If one cannot afford to be sick (and I don’t know who can– health insurance or no health insurance), then one cannot afford to not eat optimally well as a means of safeguarding their health. No one, by the way, will ever care more about your health or well-being, then you. It’s time we all took adult control and responsibility over our health and well-being instead of entrusting it to others whose interests may be aligned less with our own best interests, but may instead lie with profit.
You liken the effects of wheat as a narcotic. Can you tell me more about the emotions attached to eating – before or after – that can determine your carb (sugars) dependency?
Gluten-containing grains and dairy do contain morphine-like compounds: gluteomorphin and prodonorphin as two specific proteomes of gluten (among several other types) and caseomorphin as a opiate peptide component of dairy. For some individuals these proteomes/peptides can be profoundly addictive and utilize the same receptor sites in the body and brain is might be occupied by any opiate, including even heroin. For some people that show a particular immunologic reactivity to these components of grains and dairy this can be a very, very real problem and lend to near constant cravings for these types of foods. In fact, those having this particular sensitivity may actually feel worse for a period of time after giving up these foods simply due to the very real experience of opiate withdrawal. Not everyone experiences this, however. Very often, though, the foods we crave the most are the ones to which we are the most adversely sensitive. It sounds almost counter-intuitive, but it really is true.
The brain also releases its own opioids and dopamine in response to sugar, impacting limbic (pleasure) centers in the brain. This can be extremely addictive for some people. Your brain can essentially become addicted to stimulating the release of its own opioids as it would to morphine or heroin.
Researchers have speculated that the sweet receptors on your tongue that evolved during a time in our evolutionary history when our diet was extremely low in sugar, still haven’t caught up to the extreme excesses of sugar present in the modern day food supply. The constant stimulation of these receptors leads to a “down-regulation” in their sensitivity where they start to need more and more stimulation. The more “sweet” we eat/taste in our food, the more we generally want over time. This can make self-control extremely difficult and may eventually result in outright addiction.
Not everyone is addicted to sugar in this way, but many people clearly are. Modern day stressors of all kinds may also stimulate the tendency toward seeking “self-medication” using nutrient-devoid sugary and/or starchy food substances, as well as even alcohol–which is basically almost like “free-basing” sugar in a way… Or like throwing “lighter fluid/gasoline” on your metabolic fire in an effort to keep it going. When blood sugar instability (i.e., hypoglycemia/reactive hypoglycemia) is a particularly pronounced and a chronic problem this can readily lead to alcoholism.
What medications do you think are necessary that diet cannot address?
Of the top 300 medications most commonly prescribed today, none actually serve to support natural physiological functioning. They all are designed to artificially manipulate receptor sites or synaptic activity or certain biochemical pathways as a means of artificially ameliorating a symptom. They literally do nothing to actually restore foundational health. Modern day allopathic “healthcare” has actually nothing whatsoever to do with health. It is all almost purely “disease management” designed for a profit-based industry. Emergency medicine is truly Western medicine’s crowning jewel, but most of the rest of it operates as a corrupt and broken system designed mainly to feed itself and the pharmaceutical industry that funds its educational and training institutions.
Do you think decreased estrogen and testosterone as you age can be linked to diet? Won’t that happen naturally as you get older?
The number one source of depressed testosterone in males (of any age) is essentially related to what amounts to metabolic disorder. Basically, testosterone in the presence of excessive carbohydrates and insulin combines with an enzyme called aromatase (secreted by fat cells), which then combines with testosterone and converts it to estrogen in men. Something similar, in a manner of speaking is true for women. Certainly the most common cause of resistant weight loss in women relates to estrogen combining with an enzyme produced by the ovaries called 17,20 lyase that in the presence of carbohydrates and insulin converts to dehydrotestosterone. This leads to many symptoms commonly confused with low thyroid, among other things, including resistant weight loss, fatigue and hair loss. It can also lead to PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome), and increased risk for cardiovascular disease.
With healthy adrenal function, the adrenal glands are normally perfectly able to take over the production of needed levels of steroidal hormones in post-reproductive humans. Unfortunately, stresses of the modern world and other mitigating factors readily impair the adrenal gland’s ability to do its job past a certain age. There may be many factors leading to unnaturally diminished steroidal sex-hormone production, but these are really the most common. Let’s just say that the fact that depressed sex hormone levels and all of the terrible symptoms associated with things like menopause are nowhere near “normal” simply because they are common.
Why are bio identicals used as supplementation so bad for you?
The thing to realize about any hormone–bio identical or not–is that within the body hormones operate as part of an extremely complex system of inter–relationships. Hormones are not supplements. They are EXTREMELY powerful substances produced by the body in exceedingly small quantities: nanograms and picograms— literally billionths and trillionths of a gram– and they generate very complex effects within the human body based on numerous complex mechanisms and feedback loops. Whenever you take any hormone (bio-be identical or not) you are never just affecting one thing—you are affecting MANY things. –And not even the most talented endocrinologist could ever possibly anticipate the subtle requirements and changes in the day-to-day, hour to hour, week to week that are normally orchestrated with exquisite precision within the human body. I’m not saying that bio-identical hormones do not have their place. They most certainly do– and they are decidedly a better option when needed than their synthetic counterparts. If you are truly unable to make enough thyroid hormone, for instance, then you absolutely may need to supplement with an exogenous source– at least for a period of time; but quite possibly long-term, depending on the circumstances. I do think that bio-identical hormones do tend to be over-prescribed most of the time, however. — This seems to be particularly true of steroidal hormones, it seems. In my view, the saner approach is always to first determine the reason WHY a hormone may be depressed in the first place and then work foundationally and functionally to restore healthy levels as opposed to simply assuming your body was somehow too stupid to know how to make enough of a certain hormone in the first place and deciding to give it more. This can often be a very big mistake and lead to consequences that can be very difficult to correct in the long run. The body has good reasons to do the things that it does. It is doing its best to keep you alive and functioning well given what it has to work with and under various given circumstances. It is always best, whenever humanly possible, to work with the body to help it restore itself to a more natural state of functioning.
What would you say is your biggest “indulgence” in your own diet?
Generally speaking, I really do walk my talk and am extremely careful and selective about what I eat or drink. My own family health-history (i.e., genetic vulnerabilities), immediate and extended, gives me precious little wiggle room for maintaining my health and well-being, and I most certainly have to work at it, just like most anyone else.
For me, the biggest indulgence I will occasionally allow myself is along the lines of a glass of red wine here and there. I carefully choose the circumstance of my indulgence and do what I need to (using supplements, etc.) to compensate as much as possible for their potentially compromising effects. I don’t do it that often, but I do live in an area of the country that is known for its world-class Pinot Noir. That said, I never, ever knowingly consume any gluten, any dairy, any potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, or processed junk food of any kind. These things simply aren’t even on my radar screen.
You address disease in your book in such a thorough and comprehensive way. Often in our western society, doctors will single out the sole organ and just prescribe a drug for it. Why do you think it’s hard for so many people to understand the importance of an alkaline, low carb diet and to look at the bigger picture of connectivity and balance in treating disease?
One does not attend medical school as a means of studying health, but rather as a means of studying disease— and the treatment of the symptoms of disease with pharmaceutical agents, surgery and expensive medical procedures. Somewhere during World War II medicine ceased to be a profession and became an industry driven primarily by the interests of pharmaceutical companies. Medicine has become a profit-oriented institution divorced almost entirely from its original altruistic intentions as defined by the Hippocratic oath. However altruistic by nature a given physician might be, their first obligation is never to the patient, but always to the “standards of care” defined by their licensure and by the corporate, financial interests of the medical institution they happen to work for. Any physician operating outside this scope or attempting to restore healthy functioning through natural means may be subject to severe disciplinary action or even loss of licensure. Newtonian science (largely outdated) defines the human body as more or less a machine made up of its component parts. In the allopathic genre holistic considerations are viewed as tantamount to quackery. Nearly all allopathic medicine operates through specialization, which effectively compartmentalizes the human body in an unnatural way and fails to take into account the complexity of its varied internal and external (i.e., environment-related) interrelationships. Foundational and/or functional concepts are largely ignored as irrelevant or simply foreign. Functional medicine is an emerging discipline that lends some hope for change within the system, but still has a long way to go to overcome influential myths and misconceptions that often get in the way of more natural health restoration.
So here I am at day 21. I can honestly say, I have more energy, I feel lighter and I have a less emotionally based reaction to eating (ie, blood sugar highs and lows causing irritability and a driving need to eat right away when hungry). I have lost five pounds and my skin and eyes are clearer. I am going to continue because I like how I feel and I want to live a long and healthy life. Thank you Nora for educating and helping so many people. (And thanks to my handsome, hunky husband for encouraging me on this path!)
For more information, go to http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com
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